PK Changes
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Any chance my post from the vamp/fiends thread, showing the damage numbers can be transferred here.
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Ataraxia avg dam 350
350 * 1.5 (for pk) = 525
525 * 2 (titan vs evil) = 1050
1050 *1.25 (holy damage) = 1312.5
1312.5 * 1.25 (fire damage)= 1640.625
1640.625 * 7 (possible hits for a Titan) = 11,484.375
Ok, not quit 14K, but that was done in my head. And that is with average hits.
Half that for sanc = 5742.1875
That is still 1000+ more hp than I have as a maxxed Fully equipped 120 remorted Fiend.
Now remove the 1.5 for pk.
350 * 2 (titan vs evil) = 700
700 * 1.25 (holy damage) = 875
875 * 1.25 (fire damage) = 1093.75
1093.75 * 7 (possible hits for a titan) = 7656.25
7656.25 / 2 (for sanc) = 3828.125
Still an outrageous amount. But Survivable for more than one round.
Even adjusting and saying only half your attacks land.
That is almost 2900hp per round with the pk bonus. And just over 1900 without. With the bonus that is 2 rounds and out for the vamp.
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This is an exact copy of my last post.
vamps really arent all the screwed up if you ask me, the sun thing is a little lame, and the holy damage that they take is insane. I still say remove all the holy aspects from the game until there's something to help balance it. I dont mean to pick on arkain like everyone else, but im not even a vamp and im still gettin owned by that holy crap. Here's a log, enjoy the presentation of insanity…
Keep in mind that i had sanc on during this beatdown session..
SpuNK! <2673hp 5001sp 3297mv 173
Someone's holy fire devastates you.
Someone's holy fire MUTILATES you!
With amazing agility you swerve someone's attack.
You parry someone's attack.
You parry someone's attack.
You nimbly backflip away from someone's attack.
Your slash mauls someone.
Your slash mauls someone.
Your slash mauls someone.
Someone dodges your attack.
Your pierce devastates someone.
SpuNK! <2673hp 5001sp 3297mv 173
Someone circles around behind you.
Someone's circle MANGLES you!
SpuNK! <746hp 5001sp 3296mv 173
Someone's holy fire *** DEMOLISHES *** you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
You stumble around blindly!
Despite your attempts to move, the webs hold you in place.
PANIC! You couldn't escape!
You parry someone's attack.
Someone's holy fire does UNSPEAKABLE things to you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
You stumble around blindly!
Despite your attempts to move, the webs hold you in place.
PANIC! You couldn't escape!
You parry someone's attack.
You nimbly backflip away from someone's attack.
With amazing agility you swerve someone's attack.
Your slash mauls someone.
Your slash decimates someone.
Someone parries your attack.
Someone nimbly backflips away from your attack.
Someone parries your attack.
I was silence/blind at the time but ill guarantee you that's arkain.
Anyway, you all know im not a whiner...USUALLY..but as you can see ..a circle taking me from 2673 hp to 749 is a biiiit much. With that kind of damage added to silence=not being able to heal, i, nor anyone who has a holy vuln stands a chance in hell.
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Perhaps Dwarves/Berserkers are unbalanced? (noted by Inimical in the Vamp/Fiend thread)
I could compare to them to a number of other races, but I'll start with Human.
With a 350 addition to life, a 250 subtraction from mana, and a 500 addition to movement, they have 600 more total in the way of statistics (though I'll grant that movement doesn't count nearly as much as the others, it still helps).
With 21 strength and constitution, they also outbalance the Humans in attributes, by 6.
How about resistances and vulnerabilities? They are resistant to nearly everything magical (fire, cold, lightning, and acid) and have only one vulnerability.. drowning… and there's no way to exploit that.
Ahh, well I bet they don't get any special skills like other races, right? They get repair (though not the coolest skill, quite useful), berserk (more hp..mmm... and something tells me that the hp and mv help way more than the positive AC hurts), and, oh yeah, faster health regeneration than anyone else.
So essentially they have a lot of positives and no negatives, except a slightly lower mana.
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My suggestion for dwarves is to subtract a couple of the resistances. Not sure which. Something fairly common. And FYI berserk isn't that good. I don't recall it doing much difference at all.
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<quote author="Elmah">
@Elmah:My suggestion for dwarves is to subtract a couple of the resistances. Not sure which. Something fairly common. And FYI berserk isn't that good. I don't recall it doing much difference at all.</quote>
I would say maybe remove the fire resist. And interesting.. I'd like to hear a high-level dwarf's opinion on berserk.
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Here is one suggestion kind of outside of coding pk but is part of it.
Please stop those who sit and wait in the Rift/chat. Make so they have to take their chances just like all of us instead of being safe in the Rift.
Easy fix you can enter the Rift from just about anywhere but you exit to a choice of Plith, Olaria or another two cities on the 2nd Cont. It will stop those who just sit there waiting so they can exit and pop right next to the entrance to POA.
If they are going to pk in a CPK or NPK area they might as well take their changes and be there too it's only fair to all.
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<quote author="Darigaaz">
@Darigaaz:<quote author="Elmah">
@Elmah:My suggestion for dwarves is to subtract a couple of the resistances. Not sure which. Something fairly common. And FYI berserk isn't that good. I don't recall it doing much difference at all.</quote>
I would say maybe remove the fire resist. And interesting.. I'd like to hear a high-level dwarf's opinion on berserk.</quote>
Im not a dwarf but high level berserk is pretty decent. It adds a decent amount of hp to the caster. Im not sure how much exactly, you'd have to ask belexus on that one..
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Spell: berserk : level 105, modifies hp by 600 for 5 hours
: level 105, modifies armor class by 210 for 5 hours
: level 105, modifies damage roll by 10 for 5 hours
: level 105, modifies hit roll by 10 for 5 hours
Well that is my alts berserk. Level 105
HP and hr and dr is nice and helpful. but the accompanying ac loss sux.
I like it in certain instances.
It also saps about 600mana and 900 move (those may be a percentage of total not sure) at my level.
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ON the resistance thing. Yes the resistances are nice. BUT , resistance is just that. Not an immunity and dwarves have no immunities so that is probably the balanceing factor for either the good resistances and or few vulns
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Uh.. having no immunities balances that out? The only two races that have any immunities are Sith and Lich (except Inimical who apparently has cold immunity.. he's special), at least according to help files and getting no response from anyone else.
Do you want me to compare the Dwarves to Draconians? Well, I will anyway.
Dwarves have 200 more life, the same mana, and 500 more movement.
They have the same of all attributes.
Dwarves have 4 resists (1 really good, fire, 1 moderately good, lightning, and 2 mostly worthless, lightning and cold) and one worthless vuln, as opposed to Draconians' 1 really good resist, fire, and 1 also worthless vuln, cold (on that note, let's get some cold damage weapons!).
Draconians get fly, which I would compare to Dwarf's repair.. a useful skill, but not really that cool, and not immensely useful. Then Dwarves get faster life regeneration and Berserk (thanks Red for the info.. but is that 5-hours time the max for him?), both of which are pretty useful (though that of Berserk may be more limited, due to time constraints). The Draconian breaths have been reduced to mere shadows of their former selves, only very occasionally able to take advantage of a vulnerability, but even then usually skills such as circle would do more damage (but I would love to test this with breath lightning on a titan.. and have it be only that, a test, and not a fight).
So Dwarves have more stats, same attributes, more resists, and relatively similar, if not better, skills.
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Post transfer from vamp/fiend.
<quote>> Alignment affecting damage is something that should be done away with, at least as far as pk goes. It creates many problems, and boosts the already superior neutral races into an ever higher echelon. To clarify, neutral races have access to every class, don't suffer the increased damage that good and evil races do, and aren't burdened with the caliber of vulns good or evil races do. The only one lacking in hp, mana or mv would be lich's low hp, which is completely countered by their ridiculous mana and extremely good resists. Dwarves boast a large list of resistances, racial berserk, repair, and regeneration with essentially no vulns whatsoever (drowning? uh huh). Human's have no vulns, no racial affects, and nice hp/mana/mv and base stats.Removing the alignment based damage modifiers would at least put everyone on a semi level field as far as damage goes, a step in the right direction.</quote>
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1. Fix all characters to have only the skills, spells, and stats they were intended to have.
Every experienced player of this game knows about this problem, most of us are the beneficiaries of it as well. Players often end up with things they should not have. For example, me. I somehow have a racial max of 22 intelligence and 23 dexterity. According to the help files those should be 20 and 21 respectively. I have a first class alt that has the full spell list of an illusionist. The notorious whipping boy of Sentience, Arkain, is a wizard who has the benefit of silence. Darigaaz is a bard who can hunt. The list is far more expansive than I've listed here, and very pervasive. Pk balance is impossible when we have things that exceed the bounds of our class/race.
2. Reduce the damage reduction provided by sanctuary.
You're probably wondering why that's a good idea. Pk as it stands does not allow for strategy, or tactics. Dispel is the cornerstone pk spell, why is that? Because dropping somone's sanc effectively doubles the damage they take, it doesn't get much stronger than that. This system locks pk into a contest where the combatants dispel each other, then blind their opponent to keep them from rewearing their sanc gear. And it works very well, far too well imo. This change would probably require a reconsideration of a large spectrum of weapon damages, and probably mob damage as well. However, it would allow for far more versatility in pk and that can only be a good thing.
3. "Fix" ranged attacks such as bow and crossbow.
I almost hate to bring this one up because archery is so nice to have vs mobs, but if pk is going to be balanced this is a key part. Through some limitted testing, high level arrows and crossbows can easily do over 1k damage per shot and with crossbow you could reasonably shoot someone for 2000 - 2500. Couple this with the dispel/blind tactic and you could potentially kill a remorted 120 in 2 rounds. I don't believe this requires a simple damage nerf, as such would greatly impair the pvm benefits of archery. Shooting a player who has 4k hp for that much damage is insane, shooting a mob who has 150k hp is a whole other ballgame. Possibly a damage tweak that applies only to pvp, a 50-75% reduction would be a step in the right direction, assuming my numbers are correct. More testing is needed, and i'm not 120 anymore to do it :wink:
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Vamps/Fiends are poison immune, which is awesome.
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Yes Dari, the hour lasting for a 120 berserk is only like 6 hours. It goes away VERY fast, and drains a lot of mana and moves when you use it. It also does add a lot of armor class, which does make a difference. About the dwarves resistance/vulns. I don't think any resists need to be taken out, being resist to magical things is what a Dwarf is all about, but they could have a vuln put in that makes sense. I'm not sure at the moment but we could come up with something. As for the regeneration, it is very nice at lower levels, but the effectiveness goes down later in the leveling scheme. Of course it is till very nice, but it is not worth something such as… immunity to poison. For frame of reference... in pk combat, if I take 5 hits from someone near my level, what I regenerate would add up to less than 1 of those attacks. So while nice, it's not overpowerful. We'll just need to come up with an understandable vuln, and maybe do away with the worthless drowning.
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You gain +2 when you gain a new class to your maximum stat.
+2 str for warrior
+2 dex for thief
+2 int for mage
+2 wis for cleric
+2 all for remort
You should have +4 to max str, dex, int and wis and +2 to con when all is said and done.
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This is adding to Belexus's post on dwarves. I support everything you said Bel, and I have a suggestion for the vuln. Poison, acid, piercing, or blunt
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Jazelle wrote:
<quote>> Here is one suggestion kind of outside of coding pk but is part of it.Please stop those who sit and wait in the Rift/chat. Make so they have to take their chances just like all of us instead of being safe in the Rift.
Easy fix you can enter the Rift from just about anywhere but you exit to a choice of Plith, Olaria or another two cities on the 2nd Cont. It will stop those who just sit there waiting so they can exit and pop right next to the entrance to POA.
If they are going to pk in a CPK or NPK area they might as well take their changes and be there too it's only fair to all.</quote>
I'd like to reitirate this problem and suggest a more effective and less abusable fix than the one she proposed.
As things stand now you can enter chat from essentially every non pk room in the game. It is extremely common for someone to enter social directly before Argyle Evenhand where they pop out and try to cpk those going to PoA. It is also very common for people to use alts placed in Mystica to spy for potential victims. Consider the stealth one could have by placing a shape shifted vamp alt in an obscure corner of Mystica while their main sits a mere one room away from cpk, hiding safely in social. It's wrong, and it must be fixed.
Jazelle suggested forced exit from social to specific locations, I feel that this would regularly be abused as an easy form of instant transportation to those locations. The best solution would be to restrict enterance to social to only the recall room of each area. By it's very nature this room is easily accessible by walking, word of recall, or simple recall by low level characters. Social should be a "social" area, not an easy and highly abusable way to hide in utter safety from pk until a chosen moment, not a way to capitalize on newer player's inexperience.
Edit:
Even if this suggestion were put into practice, chat could still be abused. Primarily I see a lingering problem in Mystica, using a shifted spy one could still easily exit social and speedwalk down to Argyle/Tixthan/the chessboard/etc in seconds. Two potential solutions come to mind. First, at the danger of committing that mortal sin of "sounding mmish", pk timers effective upon exiting social and logging in (logging out a character near a cpk area with a spy is just as easily abused). This forces people to play with some balls and morality instead of hiding far from danger and killing with abusable impunity. Second, further restriction of social entry. Bar it completely from Mystica, and it would seem reasonable to continue that path and bar it from some of the high level areas such as Varkhan's Temple and Mordrake's Tower. The second solution does nothing to address the problem of logging out however, which would probably become the preferred method of hiding near pk if only social restrictions were added.
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i agree with the barring it from mystica idea
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