PK Changes

Jazelle

<quote author="RedRaven">~~@RedRaven:~~

Hrm, on the subject of entering chat… can homes and hall recall rooms be added to the list as being able to enter chat from? Would be nice, thanx for considering.</quote>

Agree with those. I was going to post something about that too.

RedRaven

<7415mv>2787/3966hp 3750/3750mp 3765/3775mv

14183784tnl 190/641lb 034

Someone has completed his casting.

Your slash DISEMBOWELS someone!

Someone parries your attack.

Someone nimbly backflips away from your attack.

Your cleave misses someone.

Someone's slash devastates you.

Someone's slash MUTILATES you!

Someone's slash MUTILATES you!

Someone's slash MUTILATES you!

Someone's slash MANGLES you!

Someone dodges someone's attack.

Someone's pierce injures someone.
- <7415mv>1375/3966hp 3750/3750mp 3761/3775mv
over 1400 damage from 5 hits, thru sanc with -900 ac? That is bs.

This on my dwarf, no vuln to his weapons. The weapon he using does 312 avg damage, but yet he can avg enough to get that much thru sanc and -900ac.. (and this was again before he cast faerie fire). Something is wrong with pk damage either the weapon involved, the race, or maybe just the char. But get real. with that much damage per round. Noone can survive. Regardless of skill or mana.

Xavis

on the subject of Dispel, if and when we change it to benejit the fun factor of PvP, we have to change Cancellation, possibly limit to removing one spell per cast during combat and lengthing spell cast time. Maybe even overall effectivness of potions if the person doesn't personally have the spell. just a thought

Ithilidin

Change cancellation to removing JUST ill effects not covered by cure poison, cure disease, remove curse or cure blind. This will still get silence, slow, web and chill touch.

inimical

Or simply remove cancellation, since it's a redundant spell anyway.

Spunky

well whatever you change i hope it's soon

even with the latest changes im still gettin owned, with mishkal sword all that has to be done is dispel/circle on me and i die..takes me from 2500 hp to 0 in one round..

SpuNK! <2425hp 3490sp 3271mv 5 heal

Arkain has completed his casting.

A negating aura of magic surrounds you.

Your grip on your weapon loosens.

You feel less aware of your surroundings.

You no longer see invisible objects.

You slowly float to the ground.

You feel yourself slow down.

You feel solid again.

The white aura around your body fades.rem all

wear all

You begin to speak the words of the spell…

Arkain has some small wounds and bruises.

SpuNK! <2425hp 3490sp 3271mv 5 You stop your casting.

Your skin turns multicoloured then turns back to normal.

Arkain has some small wounds and bruises.

SpuNK! <2425hp 3490sp 3271mv 5 rem all;wear all

Arkain circles around behind you.

Arkain's circle does UNSPEAKABLE things to you!

That really did HURT!

You sure are BLEEDING!

You remove your equipment.

You throw on your equipment.

You turn translucent.

You are surrounded by a white aura.

Your feet rise off the ground.

Your grip tightens and locks into place.

Your eyes tingle.

You feel yourself moving more quickly.

Your awareness improves.

You don't have a spare hand.

You nimbly backflip away from Arkain's attack.

You parry Arkain's attack.

Arkain's slash does UNSPEAKABLE things to you!

You sure are BLEEDING!

With a mighty slash, Arkain beheads you!

You have been KILLED!!

You feel solid again.

The white aura around your body fades.rem all

wear all

You slowly float to the ground.

Your grip on your weapon loosens.

You no longer see invisible objects.

You feel yourself slow down.

You feel less aware of your surroundings.

[Spunky has been KILLED at Heading into the Depths!!!]

Your feet rise off the ground.

Your eyes tingle.

Your awareness improves.

You can already see in the dark.

inimical

I think we should try dumping the 1.5x pvp damage, especially if the idea of lowering sanctuary's effectiveness gets imped.

Syn

<quote author="Inimical">~~@Inimical:~~

I think we should try dumping the 1.5x pvp damage, especially if the idea of lowering sanctuary's effectiveness gets imped.</quote>

not sure i understand what you're talking about

let me make clear the calculations for damage reduction for you guys

part of this is from ROM, which is why it may be so crappy ;)

in every patr of this analysis "dam" is the damage calculated in the previous step.

say you have basic damage, it is reduced in this way:

if damage is over 35

new damage = (dam - 35) * 3/4 + 35

now,

if damage is over 80

new damage = (dam - 80) * 3/4 + 80

new damage = dam + ( victim level - attacker level )
now

if they are the same class and no more than 20 levels apart

new damage = dam * 6/5

now, if it's a backstab,

new damage = dam * 3/2

This takes place BEFORE vulns, resistances, or any of that nature is computed.

inimical

There have been many mentions of a pvp damage modifier of 150% that I haven't seen any immortal correction of, that lead to my assumption I suppose. You know what they say about those who assume I guess :wink: .

Syn

<quote author="Inimical">~~@Inimical:~~

There have been many mentions of a pvp damage modifier of 150% that I haven't seen any immortal correction of, that lead to my assumption I suppose. You know what they say about those who assume I guess :wink: .</quote> 8) they were probably talking about my previous post, it's not 1.5X but it might be roughly 1.5X times mob damage reduction, or something of that nature

tommi

My PK ideas are widely know and i will reiterate the main ones in this post.

1. Cannot PK anyone more that 10 levels lower. Higher is ok

2. Form with a Pk flaged player and you too become PK flaged for the duration of the form, just like with relics

3. All churches are PK and the only way to oped out of PK is to be Unchurched.

Now i know that many dont like the idea of having level restrictions to PK and so i have some ideas that can make it better for the lower levled players. The following its assumed the attacker is high 4th class. Sancturry seems an issue in P2P combat one way to make this better could be to scale it to class levels.

Kill 3 classes below you, lowest level player sanc at 200%, high NONE

kill 2 classes below you, lowest level player sanc at 150%, high NONE

kill 1 class below you, lowest level player sanc at 100%, high at 25%

kill same class level sanc at 50% of current levels.

For P2P combat where you kill below your class level, the lower level player gets No Flee lag, so they have a chance of escape, unless webed or room shielded.

Same things go with dispel magic, scale its effectiveness in P2P combat only in simular preportions to above.

None of this would make all powerfull low leveled players in P2P but just give them a chace to survive. The likes of redraven, spunky and such are all going on about dieing in 2 rounds and how much they dont like it and thats to someone the the same level as them,. Spare a thought to the low 2nd classer who has to face anyone 2 classes higher, let alone a 120 remort.

I think this can go to making it a little more sporting for the little people

Ertai

This gives everyone of lower levels a huge advantage. Not a fighting advantage, but any lower level person should never get pk'd under this system unless they are just plain foolish. the only time low level people are forced into any pk situations are when they are souling. Everyone know who the avid pk'ers are. All you need to do is watch who is on and where. This promotes game awareness along with basic cognitive reasoning. (big person waiting to pk me… better not go in there)

eRT

inimical

Please refer to my previous post where I outline some of the fundamental flaws inherent your ideology.;

tommi

This WILL not give anyone a huge advantage, why, because as a 3rd class remort i can be killied in 1 round with an arrow (or should that be WITH ONE arrow), or 2 rounds if the attacker dont cast, or 1 round if they do cast (dispel or other attacking). plus in the 2 rounds of combat i DO NOT hit them even 1 time, this is asuming that the attacker is a 120 of any description, a fight against someone lower than me goes exactly the same ways as above and against someone my own class range it goes about 8-10 rounds. Adding to the sanc will mean the lower classed player might get an extra 1 or at the extream outside 2 rounds.

If by some manner of luck i get to flee, why shouldnt i get to run like a girl, when you flee a fight in real life do you run a little then stop and wait for them just up the road so they can come and pulverize you, no you run for your life and keep running, sure recall and work of recall should be lagged but as for fleeing you should be able to run to high hevan, and as an attacking player there are ways to stop this happening. But why use the skills at hand when you know that it will all be over in 1 or 2 rounds.

I fail to see the problems you have outlined being an issue, limiting th pk range will mean you dont have to worry about the higher classes, just those within range and seeing there is more 3rd classes in the game than any other then that would make it truely fun with all those people wanting a peice of you. Not 1 super power but 10 or so that you have a chance of fighting all wanting a peice of you. Might also mean that you see a lot of alts kept purposfully in 2nd and 3rd class just for the PK action, and with many more participants there will be lots more action.

As for huge forms of little people owning Cpk or running throught CPK with imunity, this is a total joke, I dont think i want to play with the Spider in aethilforge, or the dragon in theives forest or the the monsteres under olaria, to be honset it would take some brave 2dn and 3rd classers to want to venture into those areas FULL STOP. All the major CPK areas one would want to visit contain enough agro badasses to put a stop to this folly, and if there are ones that dont thats a simple fix from the building staff, and if thats not enough then you form with a Pker and your become pk'able, form with a higher class and you become pk'able by the higher class range.all this equates to is more fun and more people partisipating in pk not the one or 2 like at present..

At the end of the day this discussion is about ways to improve the current Pk situation and to encourage more people to participate, this i have tryed to do from both sides of the fence. Unless we think outside of the box and come up with some new and better ideas than the way it is currenty implemented then PK will remain stale and the domain of the few.

Mayby instead of looking at whats wrong with an idea we can look at whats good about it and add to it, even if thats not our prefered metheod of implemantation, the more positive ideas we have the better pool oif ideas the IMPS have to work with.

Lunani

<quote author="Ertai">~~@Ertai:~~

Everyone know who the avid pk'ers are. All you need to do is watch who is on and where. This promotes game awareness along with basic cognitive reasoning. (big person waiting to pk me… better not go in there)

eRT</quote>

THANK YOU. I'm glad someone finally said it. I've been avoiding the "people who got ganked usually deserved it" point, but you pretty much hit it for me.

tommi

<quote author="Syn">~~@Syn:~~

This thread is for intelligent discussion of PK changes. :)</quote>

Its not about the silly getting ganked, that will still happen no matter what system pf Pk is in place, its about making changes to the Pk system wether thats for the good or not, and if at the end of the day if all this discussion amounts to is that everyone is totaly satisfied with the current system then so be it.

So lets have some intelligent discussionand a flow of interesting and unique ideas or votes of aproval for the current system if thats what you want. I for one am not happy with it, and think that there can be changes wether minor or drastic made to pk to get more people activly involved in it.

Xavis

I for one am not happy with PK as is. It boils down to (and has nearly always boiled down to) who can dispel while keeping your hp up.

Ertai

As unhappy as I am with the current pk systems, I have a different complaint than you do. I see the damage being way too much because I know that there are higher level 4th classers that still don't survive more than 2-3 rounds with a 120. I don't however, feel that a level cap is the way to get past this.

Look at it from a 120 perspective. You are punishing them for spending time leveling. If I knew that I could be in the main rush of pk at third class, I would have stayed at level 90 and just trained all of my stats to the max. However, I put in the time and effort to get to 120, why should I be limited by who I am allowed to fight? Especially if I did it twice (remort).

You are, however, correct that it is not intelligent discussion unless I can offer some sort of CONSTRUCTIVE advice. So here is my idea to help this.

Look back at the basics behind hp/mana/movement. my take on them is as follows.

Hp = vitality. Essence of life.

Mana = concentration and intelligence mixture.

Movement = stamina

Someone hits me with a big axe, I not only would lose vitality, but you can be sure I wouldn't be able to concentrate as well. Also, it would be harder to fight back after losing a certain amount of blood(stamina). So how about we make it so each hit does less damage* but also takes a certain amount of mana/movement away at the same time (possibly just mana since attacking already takes movement) This would allow people's mana to be useful again besides the amount to cast initial attacking spells and a few heals. You would still only die if vitality ran out, but it could make fights more interesting and spells like channel useful again.

this change should only be in PvP because it would be much harder to calibrate with all the mobs we have.

Whatcha'll think?

eRT

inimical

If all other factors remained equal, I don't see how this would affect pvp at all personally. No one's mana is running out with the current state of pk. If any of the other myriad of suggestions are ever implemented, namely those calling for reduced pvp damage/sanctuary effectiveness, this persistent mana drain would be devestating to racial balance.

Minotaurs will be utterly useless. Titans may still prove to be viable due to their damage output, but you can expect them to be weakened, and dwarves are gonna need all those resistances to justify themselves in pk. Vampires will become godlike, inconquerable hp/mana under such a system. All the high mana races will be at a supreme advantage, especially if they have channel.

I don't think this idea is a justifiable fix.

tommi

<quote author="Ertai">~~@Ertai:~~

this change should only be in PvP because it would be much harder to calibrate with all the mobs we have.

Whatcha'll think?

eRT</quote>

There is quite a lot of merrit in what you say here Ertai and will add to this line of thought. Takeing those elements into account that you outlined will help with simular class range PvP fights

One should always be able to exploit 1 races vulnrubilities, just as we all have sanc to give 1/2 damage taken, mayby they remorted races coulld be given some defence to these attacks in PvP fights. Like some sort of Holy Barrier that reduces the damage you take from holy weapons by some percentage based on level for those that are getting wopped silly by it at the moment, not a lot but a small reduction to give balance to one current unbalance. Dwarves have drowning as a vuln, so have a spell that calls fourth a mighty river to drown us.

The harder side of the story is when the PvP is against lower classes. one possible solution would be to give them a better chance of Fleeing PvP combat, or just reduced lag, so if they do manage to flee they can run like girls to a save haven, but first they need to be able to survive the first 2 rounds of combat. There could be an auto flee in the first round of PvP combat that has some chane of success,

if 3 classes lower 90% chance of auto flee with no flee lag

if 2 classes lower 60% chance of auto flee with small flee lag

if 1 class lower 30% chance of auto flee with moderate flee flag

if same class 0% chace of auto flee with full current flee lag.

This wouldnt make them super strong, but might up the chance of surviving the PvP encounter and also make the higher classes attacker use the skills they have levled so hard to get like ensnare/web.

This could be coupled with a success chart for dispel magic too so that its harder to dispel or you can only dispel so many spells per cast mayby like 1 spell dispelled per class you are minus 1 spell per class lower you are fighting, so a 4th class could dispel 4 spells per clast if fighting a 4th class, if they were fighting a 1st class it would be only 1 spell per round.

Add in some sort of damage reduction in PvP so i cant be killed with 1 bolt/arrow that takes 1500 hp out of me while sancted.

Actually just an after thought, that coult balance this out all lies in defensive skills, my dodge/parry/gymnasitc ect are all mastered or close to master and yet as a 3rd class remort i cont dodge parry nothing against a 4th class. Remove the level calculation in PvP then i can dodge and parry the 5 attacks per round from a 120 with an altrixia doing its 350 ave per round. Also make the learning of said skills slower so that a 2nd class mort wont be mastered but will still have a chance of parry based on its learned level.

Im not toaly against having the system as it is, i just think its to biased to the highest leveled player and that makes the lower levcel players opt out of PK when i think that we need to encourage people to opt into it and i think the few Pk'ers out there would love to have a lot more people opt in.

Ok there is some more food for though. Thanks Ertai as you post provoked some new thoughts from me on this subject.

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PK Changes