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First, I don't know why people keep calling races classes.

Now, I agree that Drows and Vampires don't really need much else, but then here we're trying to suggest things for the remort races to differentiate them from the mort races. That's another thing - stop referring to the mort races (whether you mean the mort or the remort races); this thread is on the additions to remort races only.

Why is berserk useless? Last I checked, it's not that bad; at level 120, you get a lot of additional hp, a decent amount of hit-and-damage roll, and a relatively small ac penalty. Unfortunately, it has a pretty short duration, but it could last for a few fights, and with that much of a bonus I would definitely use it all the time. I wish I could use something like that. And as for the benefits, I'm mostly talking about resistances, lack of any vulnerabilities, and the decent stats. Drow, Vamp, and Titan all at least have vulns others exploit, which is one of the reasons so much damage can be dealt to them, while Dwarf is resistant to the vast majority of elemental damage and has no (workable) vulnerabilities. Also, we're not just talking about pk here– general playability is also of great influence.

If it's really that bad, then perhaps up the axe damage to 30%.. but that might be getting a bit high. As I said, we need some high-physical-damage 120 remort axes. Axes should be more powerful than swords, but not quite as versatile (ie having different elements, abilities, and such).

Also, no, don't give all remort races an additional attack. We have enough as is.

On a sidenote, people, this is a forum. Please take time to sort out your thoughts and make your messages coherent, and there's no need to curse here; in-game it's more understandable to speak quickly and impulsively. It's rather annoying to have to decipher babble with only a little bit of grammar on a forum.

This sounds more like a problem with lack of good axes, rather than the Berserker needing even more stuff for it. Axes should have higher base damage than swords anyway.. so with the 20% and a decently powerful axe, I think it should be good enough.. and remember that Dwarves/Berserkers already have a ton of benefits, as much as almost any other race, and no real disadvantages or vulnerabilities. I think they're perfectly fine.. just make some better 120 remort axes.

Ok, I like some things and don't like others. Let's do this by race; I'll go in the order Syn did, just to make it easier for me.

Titan/Colossus

Fast healing - I don't really think so.. no real need, they already have the highest hp in the game.

Greater strength - as Syn said, he's tinkering around with removing Titanic Attack, since they're supposed to be big, strong, and slow. So I'd really like to see a Titan with the normal amount of attacks, just each would be more powerful than normal. Or, maybe even less attacks than normal, and make them a little more difficult to block with certain defenses (ie these attacks are very powerful and therefore hard to just shrug off with a shield, if you were to do that all the time, you'd break your arm and/or that shield.. and because the attacks are done with such confidence and force, you couldn't really change their path (ie parry))

Draconian/Dragon

Stronger breaths - long needed.

Fly over ocean - great! Fits perfectly

Turning pierce/slash on hard scales - this, honestly, may be too much.. depending on how often it would be allowed. If it's like 5-10% (depending on your skill %) of the time, it may be just fine, but anymore would be nuts.

Claws - something I suggested before: allow Dragons to select a hand to hand "mode," dealing either slash or bash type damage depending on if they wish to use their claws or just their fists.

Tail deal - .. meh, I think if Dragon gets all of the above, it'd be perfectly fine.

Elf/Seraph

Minor fly - not bad, couldn't hurt and doesn't seem to be overpowering.. but don't put too much stock in this, as this isn't a real big difference.

Radiate light - about the same as I say for minor fly.. plus cool for rp purposes, as was said.

Absorb partial mana from spells directed at them - while this might be kind of cool, they already have a crazy amount of mana, and in most fights would already run out of hp much sooner than mana.. so I'm not sure how much this is needed.

Enchant arrows/bolts - sounds great, could be what this race really needs.

Dex bonus from natural haste - definitely put this in.

Slayer/Changeling

Claws - what exactly would this do? Slash-type damage? More damage? An explanation would be great. Also, perhaps what I had suggested for Dragons, in being able to select between the two damage-types.

Mimic defenses - sounds cool.. but who would this affect besides drows?

Reflect/purify light in well-lit areas - again, what does this do? Damage? How often does it kick in?

Additional AC - yeah, this character is naked and doesn't get any of the benefits of eq (no hp/mana/mv bonuses, which really become quite substantial later on, plus have to cast all spells except haste and sanc), they do have a fair amount of attacks and with the update allowing martial arts to work while shifted do a decent amount of damage.. but still nothing to compare with someone who wears a full set of armor and a weapon.

Human/Avatar

More DP/Pneuma - sounds good.

50% less time in void - sounds good.

Can plane-travel - hmm.. could be interesting, again, what exactly would this entail?

Dwarf/Berserker

Enhance stats of weaponry - sounds good, exact modifications able to be made to items?

20% more damage with axes/hammers - love it.

33% faster hp/mana/mv regen undergroud - cool, sounds good, but what areas count as this?

Extra attack whlie wearing 2-handed axe - No. With the 20% extra damage, I think that's enough. Almost everyone seems to want to give their race an extra attack. Bah.

Lich/Wraith

Locate items/characters farther than normal using energy to do so - sounds good.

Deflect magic - exact meaning, please?

Minotaur/Hellbaron

20% less damage except fire - might be a bit overpowered, not sure..

–- (alternatively) Star's ram and take blow to horns for less damage - might be good.. either way would be more balanced than the full 20% off all.

Having Horns - sure, why not.. plus can help in other things (previous suggestion)

Drow/Spectre

33% dodge aggro mobs - nice, sounds good

33% evade tracking - again, sounds good

auto-sneak/hide in dark areas - yet again, I like it

50% faster hunt/autohunt - first, there's an autohunt? Second, might be a tad fast.. 30-40%, I'd say (let's put 33% for everything! (heh))

Extra attack - No, enough of this. Let them be defensive.. give them a personality, don't just make them be another "all-arounder". Plus, as Ert said, might be too much.

Vampire/Fiend

Tail - I agree with Ert, extra attack .. nah. Yet again, people want more attacks for their race.. if any race should get this, only a scant few.

auto-detect invis/hidden (I believe? .. or was that already in the game?) - sounds good

Detect hidden items/exits - as was said, very limited application, but sure, why not.

Hear conversations rooms away - ok, sure.. but should be able to turn it off, as it could get annoying.. especially in chat, heh.

Other random "smoke" deal - smoke making un-attackable could really be abused to get through tough pk locations, such as river, etc.. As for against mobs.. CoG already does that.

Bats - I like the idea of 6-12 bats much better.. wouldn't screw with the game nearly as much, and wouldn't make it a seemingly-invincible escape.

Sith/Naga

Spit acid/poison - hmm.. maybe

Shed to regen quickly - the shedding just a reason for standard fast regen? or do you actually have to do something to activate this?

Lay eggs to make Sith-lings - interesting, but just how useful will these little guys be? I mean currently, leveling in forms sucks, and they would contribute much less than a player. I don't know how much damage they'd do (or be able to take), but perhaps would they help out in pk? Or, if intended as more of general aids, would it be possible to make an exception to the form exp rules to make all the exp go to you? (and only have a very small limit for these guys, if you do that)

(wipes brow) Ok, that should get most of what was said. Now, to get back to work, would love to hear feedback and all that good stuff.

The main reason that Dragons have gotten what attention they have is because I talked to Syn about it personally, not because of any favoritism or any crap like that of his.

And I can give the stats on Draconian/Dragon:

Resist: charm blunt fire

Vulnerable: cold .. (we need more cold stuff!)

Class Affects: detect hidden

Racial Affects: infrared flying

Special Abilities: breaths

Remort Additions: ability to wear two-handed weapon in primary hand, and once it's implemented, higher breath damage.

No. The vuln to piercing was removed with good reason, by Syn.. long ago. The help files just haven't been updated is all. And a Dragon is no more vulnerable to getting stabbed in the heart than any other race. Or by that logic, their scales should also deflect most slashing blows, or in game terms, given a resistance to slash damage. Now both Draconian and Dragon already have a resistance to bash, I think it'd be pretty interesting if we Dragons were also given a resist to slash and to counterbalance, a slight vuln to pierce.

I'm not saying remove Titanic Attack. I'm just saying remove the ability of Titans to wear two-handed weapons in primary hand. They'll still have their extra attack but won't have the first however many attacks be based on a much more powerful weapon. Also, I'm in complete agreement with Fear in that since Titans have the most hp, they should have the least mana. It just doesn't make sense that they have both more hp and more mana than Minos, the other high-hp, low-mana race.

While this does sound like an interesting idea that could separate the races more (which is definitely what I want), I honestly think that at this point in time this would create more problems than it would fix.

<quote author="Pravus">@Pravus:

Remorted vampires, fiends, should gain an increased strength stat-cap, above 25, …</quote>

hmm.. I think this sounds like a bit much of an advantage. Vamp/Fiend already has a ton going for it.

<quote author="Spunky">@Spunky:

it only has one round of lag

And it's damage on top of the round of combat that follows it..worth it if you ask me</quote>

Ok, one round of lag, but the next round allows them to hit you, where as attacking doesn't and does more damage than the backstab.

Wouldn't it be much simpler to just increase the damage multiplier on backstab?

Ok, I haven't read this in a long time, but I don't feel like reading it all as it's absurdly long and I did a while ago.

Either way, whatsay we remove the two-handed in primary from Titan? To me, this sounds like a remort-only thing. Fine, let Colossus keep it too, just not have a mort be able to do it. They're already so unbalanced in almost every way and already the best race for combat (combat meaning pure fighting, not meaning pk) in the game (due to extra attack, high hp, and such), this just gives them an absurd boost. I just think that particular ability should really be a remort-only thing. I originally wanted this to be special and still be a Dragon-only thing like it was at first, but if improved breath damages are implemented correctly, I won't care at all if Colossus gets it too… then we'll have something worthwhile.

Hey, how about we make backstab do something again? Currently it does less damage than a round of combat with equal-leveled weapons, so simply attacking is better in the damage area, plus it has approximately 2 rounds' worth of lag. Yay, I want to use that…

Ok, if you're that adamant on Draconians being able to do so, then have that penalty like you said, and don't let them carry anyone and let Dragons carry a player/mob .. maybe 2 (or maybe a player and a mount or something of the like).

Nah, not even Draconians.. their wings aren't yet that developed.

Ok, another idea for Dragons that might have already been suggested, but is a damn good idea. How about we let them fly between continents? Pretty much any other race with wings doesn't have wings that are developed and capable of long-term flight like those of a Dragon. Plus it'd be cool if we could carry a person or two on our back while flying intercontinentally. I could start a business and charge people!

Oh yeah, and in response to Pravus' note.. that does sound like a good way to make the attack more interesting.. but almost anything with stunning has huge potential for abuse.

I also think the current system works relatively well and certainly isn't bad now. However, the way it is, everyone has everything; everyone has heal, everyone has blind, everyone has all 4 types of classes and we're all very similar in skill sets. I want to see characters get specialized in one area. This allows for much more diversity, and adds vastly more, I think, fun to the game. Just think if in real life everyone was the same, or at least like 80-90% the same; life would be absurdly boring.

Ok, maybe tone down the vuln a bit, but I don't think it should be removed entirely. Siths actually have a lot of interesting stuff.. me and Lukus were discussing this very thing the other day. They get a lot of really cool, interesting, and most importantly, practical abilities. I can't list them all off, but any Siths/Nagas feel free to. But what I do know is that they have a natural hunt (would be perfect for bard, too bad they're evil and can't go bard) and some really interesting toxins (including one that knocks out opponent).

But yes, making the ability not apply to arrows might be a good thing. However, with the next patch the damage from arrows will be toned down greatly already, remember.

Ok, just briefly looking at the abilities for Dragon, I like the slashing idea, but I'll suggest a variant on it: I think Dragon (Draconian's claws aren't fully-developed) should be able to set a "mode" of hand-to-hand damage, either slash (claws) or bash (curled-up fist or otherwise general blunt damage.. Backhand!). That way we can set either one we want due to possible immunities/vulnerabilities. Also, I know Syn has already attempted to work on implementing much-improved breath damage for both Draconian and Dragon (and even moreso for Dragon), but unfortunately they didn't work, so let's just hope that gets set into effect (please.. we both need this badly). Let's get more abilities for Dragon to convince more people to go it! I don't want to be alone forever.. (sniff)

I'd also really like to see some special stuff for Minotaur. When I was recently looking at races to go for an alt, I was mainly looking between Titan and Minotaur (I wanted a high-hp, low-mana dedicated fighter), Titan beats out Minotaur in every way .. well, except for the regen… but that's it. Anyway, Minotaur really doesn't have much going for it; it's vuln to the most common element in the game, no really cool special abilities or anything.. the list goes on, but I'm too lazy to say them all right now, and probably have before anyway.

That Gore ability sounds nice, but it's rather simplistic; just another damage skill. Unfortunately I can't think of anything really creative at the moment, but my mind will certainly be on it, and I hope many others will as well.

I don't know about "loverly," but I think it would be an excellent idea .. at least to have in Achaeus, since that's sort of a central hub town on the second continent (mainly because it has the quest master).

Oh yeah.. bah, I don't care for forcing players to quest a lot if they want to cast higher-up spells.. but that's another topic for another time.