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I'll agree with you there. Elf is such a broad term it's really hard to pin point which type our 'elf' applies to. While a lot of the times elves are portrayed as peaceloving, this isn't a peaceful game lol. I have to agree with your basic recap of elven abilities though, and I'll agree, physical strength isn't one of their better skills, compared to other races.

The lowered accuracy on an augumented arrow shot is another good idea for balancing. Something to take into account anyway. Elements can indeed give the user the abiliy to exploit weaknesses.. where an arrow shot isn't constant damage like a held weapon, there's still the lag between attacks and that. I'm not sure how much trouble it would be to work on balancing this. Perhaps put a limit on what kind of spells/effects can be used with the arrows perhaps.

I've talked with a few people about the race and various ideas, but I don't believe the idea has been presented formally.

While elves aren't seriously lacking or broken, the race does need some work. However because of such, I think that's why it's being overlooked.

For some reference I'm going to post the elf stats

Affects: haste

Skills: archery, bow, hide, sneak

Special abilities: +5% accuracy when shooting ranged weapons

Immune to: None

Resistant to: magic

Vulnerable to: iron

Str: 20 Int: 22 Wis: 20 Dex: 21 Con: 20

Max health: 2500 Max mana: 3750 Max movement: 2800

Size: medium

While overall the elf stats are fine.. we get into the affects, skills and special abilities.. which I think is what the race is lacking in. The haste ability is a bit messed up, it doesn't give you a dex bonus. Nice not being able to dispel it, but even so, getting haste isn't that difficult really.

Archery and bow, makes sense for the race.. and the special ability of 5% accuracy on ranged is a good idea, but really doesn't do much.

Again, it's all 'alright' add ons, but nothing special. Especially once you're of a higher level and you have all the skills anyway. The main problem with elves/seraphs is that all their 'special' racial abilities and skills, are things that any race can get and that most characters will have through their classes. There is no real elf ability.

Moreso.. I can't understand the concept of how any other race can be just as good of an archer as an elf. So looking for a racial sort of ability, I thought something to do with arrows or ranged could be beneficial to the race. As well as something that could hopefully be balanced well.

I was thinking along the lines of combining spells and the archery ability. Something like an acid arrow spell, that you could use in battle; that when cast, shoots an acid based arrow, that uses a certain amount of mana as well as shoots an actual arrow from your quiver. Sort of like an instant infuse sort of concept. It'd just be nice to have some sort of way to customize elven archery battle tactics.

Nibelung also mentioned that instead, being able to cast something on the bow, that would last a certain time duration and shoot certain spell/elemental based arrows.

With trying to balance it, I figured these magical type arrows would only be able to be used close combat perhaps. As well as the mana cost to use them, it would help give elves something to use all their mana on.

It's a really rough idea, but elves could use something offensive. Since they're not exactly defensive but have low hp, offense would help. As well it gives elves/seraphs something to master in the archery field.. It's just frustrating have the same archer ability as a titan or mino. The 5% bonus doesn't really do much.

A few people have also mentioned fletching as a skill.. it's an alright idea again.. but still, arrows aren't difficult to get. Making it so elves make the best arrow still wouldn't do much, as you can't make a fletched arrow overly powerful or we'll run into the same issues as ranged had before for the insane damage. So you'd get a projectile slightly better than what's available to everyone else, I just can't see it being beneficial enough to matter.

I figure every race should have something special just for it, and I imagine that's the plan for the end product. Just thought I'd give an idea to help elves along the way

~E

war/boat/auction for me :)

For someone commenting on people arguing over stupid things, you just made a reply that has nothing to do with the topic. Not to mention, seems to have been made only to bash me, and my gender. On top of that you took a shot at Ith, when he wasn't taking anyone's side.

My assumptions were made with fact at least. I argued my concept of bows, and I argued your reasoning for titan's needing them as well. I'm not arguing the concepts because it's you, if so I wouldn't be supporting my ideas. I'm only addressing those who are addressing me.

Funny you mention assumptions. Don't blame my gender for the reason people don't camp my ass to kill me. I know how not to get killed in this game. I've been pked by far more people than Arkain. I just happened to learn something from it.

Back to topic. As I said, the ranged weapons if given to the races I specified would possibly need some more testing. I said that all along. Ith had some good ideas for what could be done to Titan to help make up for things. Various additions and/or changes to current racial skills could be made to balance it out for all races really. Moreso, I usually use Titan or Mino as my comparison against elves and drow, merely for the fact I consider them to be bulkier, slower more brawn oriented races than the agility of the elf/drow.

However, an idea aside from taking the ranged weapons away from other races. For elves, the idea od speeding them up makes decent sense. The wait for the shooting time could be sped up instead. Better speed, better accuracy. Perhaps combine it with being able to shoot two arrows at once. Maybe an arrow shot off during the round as well as between rounds if timed right? It seems incharacter for the race, but it would need some testing to see how other races can respond.

As red said, people have been camping the portal forever. And as I've said, arrows/bolts haven't been around forever.

As for people sitting in cpk at the portal and shooting you. Think about it. What logic is there in that? The victim can go stand in npk and lose nothing.

Regardless however, ranged weapons go out of range easily, and take a few seconds to shoot. So as for how to get around them? RUSH and kill them for god sakes. If you can't, then level until you can. Learn to pk might help too.

Frankly this argument about ranged weapons being essential to get through the portal is a joke. Other people get through without ranged. If you can't kill them, die out, or wait until they're not waiting. Rather simple.

I don't need to make you look like an ass Balder, you do it all on your own. People don't have to agree with me, and I'm sure many don't, but at least the examples I'm giving are supported correctly.

Arrows and bolts ARE cheap, which is why people don't stand in npk and kill people in cpk with them. I never said ANYTHING about them being worthless after being toned down however. If I did, I wouldn't be trying to make an arguement that only certain races should have it. They'll be balanced after the update, not worthless.

Now aside from what I was saying in the first place.

If the idea of taking the crossbow and bow away from other races except for what I specified in my original arguement, is too much. Then I was thinking perhaps making the skill more useful for drow and elves. Leave the accuracy bonus, but perhaps give a couple support skills? Someone has mentioned perhaps being able to shoot two arrows at once or double the speed on the shooting time. Perhaps if the super infuse idea goes through, make it permanent?

They're all ideas, I'm not certain which ones I'd prefer.I like my original arguement more, but I could see people arguing.. but like I said, giving all the races something special would even things out ant justify them. Perhaps giving some of the race abilities some range would help too. I'd just like to see elves get something special that everyone else doesn't have.

Malandor has been around longer than arrows, bolts and archery. By no means are ranged weapons needed to kill him. ranged weapons have only made things considerately easier. That will lessen with the update, with arrows/bolts doing less, the kill/flee would be faster, or just tanking.

From what I see, anyone who says they require these ranged weapons, really needs to learn to play this game. Some are too used to the unbalanced damage on them. I can't wait until they're updated and fixed. until the fix, they're just an unfair advantage being abused. If you NEED them to kill mobs, then you frankly lack at the basis of the game. And since that's coming from me, who's vary partial to arrows.

As for the people sitting at the portals. This is nothing new. There are ways to get around it, and if you can't figure it out, then that's your problem. Ranged weapons aren't that old, people played the game before them. Suck it up Balder.

As I said, elves would have the archery which is a good skill yes. Other races have good skills too, only available to them. Those who don't, should be given such. I'm not arguing that fact in the least.

On the other hand, if removing the ranged from other races (other than elf/drow/human) is that much of a problem.. then archery should be taken away from everyone except elves (possibly drow, but they do have the extra defense) And something better than a 5% accuracy bonus should be given. Because frankly from what I see, the bonus doesn't do a whole lot. It's been tested between me and a dracon (on the test port) and the extra accuracy really doesn't make a major difference.

I think available class choices need to be brought into this conversation.

First off, just as a general statement, a lot of races get special abilites just for said race. Dracs get breath, Sith get Toxins, Vamps shape, etc.

Elves and in a leser sense, drow, don't get a lot to themselves.

On that note, I agree completely with Myth's idea to bring mino horns into the picture, they need it. Dwarves could also use more things to do with the race. I'll expand more on that in a moment.

On a side note, for titans… the speed they have is out there yes, and it looks to be getting changed. The two handed weapon thing is being taken to the remort form, which is great. they deal big damage, but aren't so fast. But perhaps instead of taking away the titanic attack, just change what it does. Take the atatck and turn it into a skill that does more damage, but make them lose the round. Much like circle, bash, archery, etc. It supports the heightened damage thing they have.

On that note. I think instead of all this enchaning arrows/bolts and such to help elves. Why does a titan/drac/dwarf/mino as well as every other class, have the chance to use archery? I use the bigger races as examples because it's funny :P anyhow. My example being, you don't see an elf going around with the breath skill, or shape shifting.

Archery has been toned down, it's surely not gamebreaking like it was. If it needs toned down more, understandable. But my idea was to make bow an elf only skill, as well give them archery, and they can keep their 5% accuacy bonus. Give drow the crossbow and archery, and let them keep their defences, but don't give them a bonus since they have the speed swerve. It still keeps both elven races fast and defensive, and they get some ranged.

Take bow/crossbow/archery from druid and ranger, but leave the accuracy bonus on ranger for ranged weapons. infuse from ranger can be used on arrows (perfect class for drow/elves) but at the same time infuse can work on weapons too.

if need be, perhaps give humans both bow and crossbow, but no archery (so no shooting in battle, only ranged) and no accuracy bonus. That keeps the human able to still master all weapons... but still gives drow and elves something of their own. You lose some of your attacks while using ranged weapons as well, so elves and drow won't be putting out large amounts of damage.

Actually with all of that said, leaving bow and crossbow as is, and taking archery away from everyone except elves and drow might actually be better in the overall. Depends how it wants to be done..

if need be,elves could be given another vuln other than iron. I was thinking maybe make a counter of holy which drow are weak to, call it darkness.. and only make elves weak to it, since they're the basic opposite of a drow.

The magic arrow idea was okay for elf remorts.. but really, plan your classes and go ranger for god sakes. And the reliability of infuse is more strategic.. I can only infuse an arrow with someone's vuln if i know I'm going to be fighting them.

I'd rather see other races given some race specific skills to help them out, and give the ranged weapons to the elves and drow. After the update comes out, the ranged weapons needing to be tweaked could be an issue. But as I see it now, the shooting times are down on them in general, which balances things, most people will use circle anyhow.

It just makes more sense really. It's not different than the titan concept.. a titan who's faster than a drow.. well, a 'insert big race without hands and perfect accuracy' killing me with a bolt or arrow when I'm am elf, doesn't make any sense..

But in general and apart from that, I agree that some of the other races need some racial things too so that the archery change would balance.

And as for elves getting another vuln, if need be, for the love of please give dwarves a vuln other than drowning :P

snuggle I hope you'll be okay! I miss you sweets

Eeee! Whisp and his vrroom vrrrom car! :D snuggle whisp

Have heard good things about you luvie. Hopefully you can get ahold of syn and get your password back. :)

Something to call a mount would be awesome. Poor mMeoi is always getting lost.

And since mounts can't cast anymore, not that it was something I bothered with, as I do good to keep myself casting ehehe.. I don't find they're as overpowering.

And it's not like everyone wasn't given the chance to go crusader either, as one of the previously required classes for crusader is gladiator.. and a mount only cosst 15K. Which isn't that much really.

Being able to call them to you at anytime would make them much more versatile, so like previous people have mentioned, make a whistle or something that's a quest item to get.

Just my two cents anyhow :)

Really, at least one of the evil classes should be able to weild a two handed in weapon in one hand.. I'm leaning more towards Mino on that one. Nice observation though, never really thought about that ^^

Ehehe Elf/Seraph please ^^ hugs a tree

I like the auto haste and extra accuracy for archery :)