Class Switching

[Nibelung]

Well, would the alignment restrictions remain in place? Ie, would wizards be good and neutral only? I mean, wasn't that only for the class->subclass system?

Also, the subclasses would need to be looked at closely and PROPERLY balanced so not one single subclass has too much power. Otherwise, you'd have people choosing wizard+sorceror and having so much power it's pathetic. PK would be an ever bigger joke than it is now.

That's my two cents.

[Ithilidin]

Also, I'd like to see hp modifiers for the subclasses taken.

Something like:

+50 hp, -75 mana, +25 stamina for each warrior class

+25 hp, +25 mana, -50 stamina for each cleric class

-50 hp, +75 mana, -25 stamina for each mage class

+25 hp, -50 mana, +25 stamina for each thief class

Just examples, but you get the idea. Gives a bit more variety in stats so everyone doesn't end up the same.

[Anonymous]

it sounds like a good idea but…would people who have already put years of work into their char completely LOSE everything they've already worked their asses off for?

[Syn]

• You wouldnt lose any hp, mana, etc from switching subclasses. the only thing you would lose is the stuff specific to that subclass (skills, spells and possibly the +2 stat bonuses)

• Nobody would have to switch or be compelled to. I.e. you wouldn't lose anything (except skills that you wern't supposed to have in the first place, like some of the wizards having silence and what not).

Xev, I can definitely see your point. However keep in mind that this is somewhat self balancing in a way… That is you can go 2 mage classes, but you HAVE to give up a cleric, a thief, or a warrior altogether, and it would also limit your choice of remort subclasses (the remort class limits would still be in place).

I don't know if we'd have align restrictions still. I doubt they would be as stringent. I'm not too sure at this point :P

Once again keep in mind this is just an idea for discussion. I'm not saying we're going to add it, I just wanted to hear some (civil) discusison about its pros and cons. So please refrain from freaking out at possible bad implications... just list them here so we can look them over.

[Spunky]

i wasnt really freaking out, just wanted to know :D

[Darigaaz]

I think this would be great and could allow for more specialized characters.. only two things.

I agree with Ith that stat bonuses for classes would be really good. Although I think I'd change the numbers a tad, it would also help my second point a lot.

Sort of in line with that, perhaps characters should be a bit more proficient at what they go multiple classes for? i.e. a person who goes 3 warrior classes could do more damage than someone who only went 1 and 3 mage classes. Because the skills from warrior classes especially overlap greatly, and I'd really enjoy making a character who was like a highly-trained combat specialist. I mean, a person who has had training in 2 or 3 different types of combat should be able to do more damage than someone who has only learned one. In the same vein, someone who goes 2-3 mage classes should cast much more consistently and perhaps have a few spells be more potent, and a person who goes 2-3 thieves should be able to steal much easier, quicker, and from higher-level victims.

Addendum: If this was implemented, I think I'd actually make an alt. Yes, I would actually make an alt.. a scary thought, but possible.

[Spunky]

And with this you could make more specialized parties to complete more specialized quests. Have a party with a thief, a mage ..one character of each class ..to accomplish one task. It would be nifty

[Laje]

I really like this idea, but the problem I see is that many of the skills/spells are overlapped by classes. If more of them were specific to just one class instead of all classes it would be worth it to give up a class.

[Darigaaz]

I sincerely want this to be implemented ASA-freaking-P. Syn, if you need any help coding or anything, or any help with balancing or testing stuff, I would really like to help in any way possible. I do have a little experience with C and C++.. though unfortunately I know the game's in C and my C++ stuff is useless there.

[Jazelle]

I have suggested something like this for years. The only exception I see is the lost of practices. If people could be credited for the practices that would be good.

I also agree that the cross over spells and skills need to be taken out and the sub-classes made much more solid. Still the classes do need to be worked on and several brought up to snuff.

I would love to see someone go all warrior or mage but also to balance the two put in a VULNERABILITY/RESISTANCE system. If you go too much to one class your going to suffer a shift in the balance. If you go all warrior you have a % of vulnerablity to magic and for a mage you have a % of vulnerablities to weapons. Well you get the idea. If you keep to a balance of sub-classes your Vul/Res are milder.

It would be nice to see all the combos and give them titles. I would gladly do up charts for it all. Grin

[Darigaaz]

I think instead of the vulnerability/resist system you suggest, which could be quite viable, a system like I suggested before would be better.. it's somewhat the opposite; if you go more than one of a type of class, you get stronger in that profession… for more explanation, refer to my earlier post.

[Jazelle]

<quote author="Darigaaz">@Darigaaz:

I think instead of the vulnerability/resist system you suggest, which could be quite viable, a system like I suggested before would be better.. it's somewhat the opposite; if you go more than one of a type of class, you get stronger in that profession… for more explanation, refer to my earlier post.</quote>

Still if you don't have or are limited in one profession there should be some kind of vulnerablity. If a person goes all warrior they are not (other than with weapons and potions) going to have much defence against someone casting magic.

[Specialk]

How long has the current mage, theif, etc thing been working? Yeah it does limmit a lot of stuff but it helps make the game more balanced, I think some classes are a little too screwed up and need fixing, such as the necro, and i think there should be hand to hand weapons like iron knuckles etc. But over all the system we have now helps create balance.

The warrior classes are balanced, they make it hard to chose because they all have good qualities.

Mage classes are kinfa favored to druids for the enchant ability from what i am seeing, but some people still branch off.

Sorcerred and Wizards are good but other than drain life and if you want to be nice the resorect spell, necros need some work from what i see.

And I don't really go to far into the thief classes but bards have some dealdy songs, and at an early level they can REALLY do some damage fast with the dispel song. I ahve never used them though so I don't know how they work.

In conclusion I think that sytem works and I like it the way it is.

[Darigaaz]

I also think the current system works relatively well and certainly isn't bad now. However, the way it is, everyone has everything; everyone has heal, everyone has blind, everyone has all 4 types of classes and we're all very similar in skill sets. I want to see characters get specialized in one area. This allows for much more diversity, and adds vastly more, I think, fun to the game. Just think if in real life everyone was the same, or at least like 80-90% the same; life would be absurdly boring.

[Syn]

I think the response has been positive so far. This has pretty deep implications, so I'm not going to implement it until I'm ready (i.e. I'm not going to work it into this next update, but I will definitely look at implementing it thereafter). I'm polishing up the new version and it's looking better and better. Thank you all for your feeback.

Dari, I agree with the need for variety. I think it's really bland when everyone has heal/blind etc- I think the complexity that would arise from having truly diverse class choices would be much better for game dynamics and PK as a whole.

I've gotten the feedback I need on this topic so far, so I'm gonna un-sticky it but leave it open in case anyone wants to add anything else. I'll dig it back up when I start working on this, which won't be for a little while… but it's still open for discussion.

In the meantime please comment on my other post about mage spells 8)

[Ithilidin]

If subclass changes are going to be made, I think that there would need to be an adjustment to skills. A three class warrior should have an advantage over an all single class person. First class warrior should see easy to use weapons such as dagger, sword, staff and exotic. I say exotic because it really could mean just anything you pick up and use as a weapon. Be given dodge, second attack and other minor skills, save the magical items usage. This sort of treatment should used across all classes. A one class mage casting fireballs and such just doesn't make sense to me. Or a first class thief blackjacking and slitting people.

As stated somewhere else, I have always been a proponent of giving hidden skills and spells to the specified class. For example, a third class cleric could gain a spell called heaven's wrath, that would not be a known skill until they reach the right level and class requirement. Or disguise for the four class person, which would in effect be a shift type skill. They could disguise themselves to be a mob of the area they are currently in. Due to the generalization of their skills, they are better adept at being able mimic their surroundings.

[Tone]

I didn't see anyone mention to rp factor about all this. If you think about it like you said everyone has all four classes as it is now. You and a friend play and one could solely be a spellcaster whereas the other solely a warrior/thief classes and it would make interesting forms and add a little bit or a lot to the playing experience. I think it would encourage people to form. After all someone who is all mage or warrior is not going to go kill some supermobs solo with just one set of classes. I don't know if i explained it right but I tihnk you guys understand. Just think of the rp it could encourage

[Ithilidin]

This is by no means complete, balanced, anatomically correct or anything like that. It is meant to display what I had meant from my previous post. Some adjustments were made as stated. It is also based on that there will still be three classes per class, with an open ended fourth.

feign - This skill I took away from classes because I feel that it should be more of a vampire or lich skill. I could see it as a thief skill

healing hands - This skill I took from mage class since the help file says it is a cleric spell

light shroud - Due to their holiness, I took this from the mage class as well and gave it to cleric

enchant armor - Being as they are good with the arcane, mages should naturally get this

enchant weapon - See enchant armor

enchant artifact - Not a spell, but should be for mages. Allows them to enchant jewelry and artifacts. Third class spell.

scrolls - Due to their magical nature, clerics and mages get this early. Thieves, after having spent time around such things, pick it up late in their career.

wands - Too magical for anyone but mages to understand how to use.

staves - Given to clerics and mages for their arcane abilities.

recall - remove the move cost from word of recall and leave it on recall

[global skills]:

hand to hand

recall

single weapon style

[mage skills]:

First class:

armor

burning hands

cancellation

chill touch

colour spray

dagger

faerie fire

infravision

magic missile

quarterstaff

scrolls

shield

shocking grasp

stone skin

weaken

Second class:

acid blast

blindness

charm person

control weather

death grip

dispel magic

earthquake

energy drain

entrap

fireball

fireproof

fly

giant strength

haste

lightning bolt

locate object

lore

inferno

invisibility

pass door

sleep

staves

summon

wands

Third class:

afterburn

animate dead

chain lightning

channel

dispel room

electrical barrier

gate

improved invisibility

kill

mass invis

nexus

raise dead

room shield

silence

slow

starflare

summon

web

[cleric skills]:

First class:

armor

bless

cause serious

continual light

create food

create rose

create water

cure serious

detect hidden

detect magic

dodge

fireproof

flail

mace

meditation

quarterstaff

refresh

scrolls

spear

underwater breathing

Second class:

brew

call lightning

cause critical

create spring

cure blindness

cure critical

cure disease

cure poison

detect invis

dispel evil

dispel good

earthquake

flamestrike

fly

identify

kicking

lore

martial arts

reverie

scribe

skull

staves

stone skin

Third class:

blindness

calm

catch

control weather

cosmic blast

counterspell

curse

deep trance

demonfire

dirt kicking

enchant armor

enchant weapon

frenzy

harm

heal

healing hands

holy word

light shroud

mass healing

plague

poison

remove curse

sanctuary

summon

third eye

word of recall

[thief skills]:

First class:

blackjack

dagger

dodge

enhanced damage

hide

pick lock

scan

sword

Second class:

acrobatics

backstab

crossbow

detect traps

haggle

peek

sneak

steal

Third Class:

circle

envenom

hunt

lore

second attack

slit throat

[warrior skills]:

First class:

axe

bash

dagger

dodge

fast healing

kick

mace

second attack

spear

sword

Second class:

archery

bow

dirt kicking

enhanced damage

polearm

rescue

shield and weapon style

shield block

third attack

two-handed weapon style

whip

Third class:

circle

disarm

dual wield

exotic

fourth attack

intimidate

mount and weapon style

parry

scrolls

[Mythology]

Personally, I don't feel being able to go multiple mage classes would work well. It would give people the option of choosing their classes better, but it could also make out for some really shitty characters too, and then the people would just complain about that. I went these classes and no cure blind! how could this be!

I'll hafta throw in a no vote for this one. The 4 class idea has worked well so far.

Maybe make specializing in a certain field part of the Guru aspect? nobody has talked about Guru much lately.

[Anonymous]

Being able to pick any class whether its one of each or 4 mage classes is a pretty cool idea. However if the good spells/skills are removed and saved only for multiclasses of the same type of class, where you'd get the best stuff if you go all the same class type, I don't think it would result in a lot of good characters. If you went all 4 classes in 1 type, you'd be good at 1 thing. If you wanted a balanced character and chose 4 different types of classes, you'd end up being good at nothing.